Curse

LordDeArnise · Apr 13, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

It really hurts new exclusive PvE players the most, because now people will have to farm and grind more for enough gold to buy new skills. Remember that using faction pts for skills and the like will only go for future PvP builds, not PvE builds.

I did kinda like the questing system from Prophecies because if there was a particular skill available as a reward, then you surely want to complete it. But then, we'll have to see how the new system is implemented in FActions.

Hella Good · Apr 13, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banin Galori

Still, I'm curious as to how this affects PvP so much. If you have a PvP build, you'll need 8 skills. Surely that's much faster to acquire in the new system, when those 8 skills can be the first 8 skills you get?

PvP is immediate, unlike PvE which is a delayed progression of skill. If you don't have a large skill pool in the first few weeks of release, it is very likely that you will be missing on new builds that are gaining popularity. In PvP if you can't play a certain build because you don't have the skills, it's very likely you won't play at all.

Which brings us to the cumbersome faction system that needs to be either reworked or the cost of skills severely reduced. I know quite a few PvP players who said they will wait and see what the skill acquisition system is when Factions comes out, before they decide to buy the game or not.

With a 10K faction pool ANet didn't even allow us to prepare for factions release. If I had the option to accumulate about 50K faction be4 the game comes out, I would've felt more prepared.

Gandalf The Monk · Apr 13, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

they better add more quest with high exp rewards or skill points/gold as rewards

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf The Monk

they better add more quest with high exp rewards or skill points/gold as rewards

If you bothered reading Gaile's post, you would know that's what they plan.

I'm sick to death of people complaining on threads they don't even bother to read. I mean, the quote is repeated on practically every page! Here it is again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hey, guys,

Just to make things a little more clear, and show you that what you're concerned about isn't a big deal. Honest! I'll try to make a spiffy bullet list. Oh dear heavens, I do love my bullet lists:

Character level progression will be faster.
Skill points are acquired more quickly.
What we are doing is simply empowering you to make more choices. Rather than handing off the same two skills to every person for each quest, you get choices.
There will be a greater variety of skills offered earlier in the game. We actually help to offset the cost of acquiring skills by rewarding you with an amount of gold that will help you towards the cost of acquiring the skills.
- This is an exciting thing, because when you run into someone, you won't be able to predict build from A to Z. What he chose may be different than what she selected. More variety, again, is a good thing.
- And for those interested in unlocking, each character can choose skills that were not unlocked on the last character, expanding options for the account as a whole.

There! Not only is that a vision of loveliness as a bullet list it's packed with good info, too!

ducktape · Apr 13, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I couldn't give a damn how easy skill points are to attain if i have to pay 1k for each frigging skill i want!

Just because i have 1.1mil in the bank doesn't mean i'm happy about spending it on skills to progress my character. I spend money on skills to farm, mess around, test builds, make new utterly pointless builds, etc.
My 55 ele build didn't just appear using a collection of skills i had, i had to do the quest to become E/Mo then go buy a few skills. This i did by choice, it was bad enough having to go buy Apply Poison on my ranger (first char) then finding out the skill was utterly f*cking useless against all the undead around!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

In Factions, there better be enough quests that rewards:
- skill points
- gold
- both

Otherwise its gonna be a grind.
1,000 gold for a new skill ain't cheap.

It's precisely this combination of problems that makes me worried that using my new Canthan characters will not be fun. It sucks for everyone, but especially for new characters that are created as Canthan characters. I only have 30k total and I worry about wasting money on the wrong skill, imagine how the skill sysetm would affect Factions-only players who have no money at all. Grind = BAD!!!! I hope ANet is quite generous in handing out gold and EXP for quests

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Apr 13, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

If you bothered reading Gaile's post, you would know that's what they plan.

I'm sick to death of people complaining on threads they don't even bother to read. I mean, the quote is repeated on practically every page! Here it is again:

Just how much the
- gold reward
- exp reward
- skill points reward (if such thing exist, I know they existed in pre-searin)
will be, we don't really know unless Factions is released.

As for Gaile Gray stated that
"by rewarding you with an amount of gold that will help you towards the cost of acquiring the skills."

Let's just hope that the "amount of gold" would be sufficient enough.

I'm gonna be quite dissapointed if the so called "amount of gold" is just a measly 1,000 gold reward.

From my experience in Prophesies, gold rewards from quests ceased to exist after we left pre-searing.

Loviatar · Apr 13, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

I'm gonna be quite dissapointed if the so called "amount of gold" is just a measly 1,000 gold reward.

.

1000 gold IS A SKILL so dont expext them to give you the gold for 5/10/100 skills at once.

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

I'm gonna be quite dissapointed if the so called "amount of gold" is just a measly 1,000 gold reward.

Why? Skills don't cost 1,000 until you've bought several already.

1,000 gold instead of two crappy skills seems like a good trade off to me...

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Apr 13, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I would say that this time its going to be harder to unlock every skill, if you want to do that.

But unlocking the skills you actually want, will be alot easier. I just hope that because of this fact, there are alot more quests than there were in Prophecies. You basically will need enough to fit the ratio 1 quest per 1 skill you want X 2 Proffessions

Renegade ++RIP++ · Apr 13, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Why? Skills don't cost 1,000 until you've bought several already.

1,000 gold instead of two crappy skills seems like a good trade off to me...

buy skillcaps for all the prophecy eliteskills of the 2 professions, then add a couple of the skills that aren't reachable through a quest and you'll see how fast you are at 1 k a skill... then we are'nt even speaking about any of the factions skills yet...

unless those quests can be repeated ad nauseum, i will prefer 2 skills... since the ramp up to 1k for each skill is quite fast (around 40 - 50 skills)

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

buy skillcaps for all the prophecy eliteskills of the 2 professions, then add a couple of the skills that aren't reachable through a quest and you'll see how fast you are at 1 k a skill... then we are'nt even speaking about any of the factions skills yet...

unless those quests can be repeated ad nauseum, i will prefer 2 skills... since the ramp up to 1k for each skill is quite fast (around 40 - 50 skills)

Maybe Anet will lower the price of skills?

Look, I think people are arguing over how this will be implemented. I think the basic idea of people choosing what skills they want is a good one, as long as it's affordable.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Apr 13, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Maybe Anet will lower the price of skills?

Look, I think people are arguing over how this will be implemented. I think the basic idea of people choosing what skills they want is a good one, as long as it's affordable.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But I hope they at least notice it and will do so. Although I kinda liked beingrewarded with skills, it was something else then always the same rewards like money, or skillpoints or... it is diversification and options make the world go round.

LoKi Foxfire · Apr 13, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I think this idea might turn out somewhat interesting for old players since we have a serious advantage in terms of skill points and money. I got almost 2.5 million in exp between my 3 characters (most of it concentrated on 2, 3rd I don't play as much)... so.

The one guy saying how everyone had to start as a fire elemental makes a very good point. Imagine how different the builds would have developed if people were allowed to go air or water if they wanted to.. (well, I guess that would mean Air spike would have came even faster in Tombs then...)

Vusak · Apr 13, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

PvP'rs require UAX asap usually. that way they can quickly adapt to new builds and stay competitive, this is by and large the definition of fun/enjoyment for PvP'rs in this game. while you can argue that a good build just requires 8 skills not the whole lot, a PvP'r usually feels very handicapped with restricted choice, and a PvP'rs perspective of their own enjoyment counts for more than anyone elses.

now the worry i have is regarding just how much xp and g we will get per quest run (you can guarantee there will be quest "running").

assuming a skillpt is 15k xp and 1k g, a single quest run would have to yield 30k xp and 2k g, to provide the equivalent of a single prophecies quest with a 2 skill reward.

i very much doubt this will happen.

further, some of the quests for skills were really short and easy in prophecies. in factions im not so sure the 'skillpt' quests will be quite so easy - my reasoning is based on the fact that any quest with a really short completion time will farmed hugely, and would detract from higher level areas like UW and FoW and faction equivalents.

im expecting any given quest to be scaled according to completion time, so that rewards per minute spent will climb towards the pve-endgame.

and i also suspect that quest rewards will range from 2k-5k xp with 500-1k g tops.

i mean, theyre basically turning skills into a moneysink, meanwhile, once a lot of people have gotten UAX, suddenly these quests are pumping large sums of money into the economy - making stuff more expensive - making those without UAX have a lot less opportunity to get 'cool' stuff while trying to unlock.

in principle - yeah i can see the good intentions... hell i can kinda understand where they pull this 'diversity' crap from (short term YES - long term NO). but honestly all theyre doing is encouraging cookie cutter guildwiki research type stuff leading to a few 'farming' builds for those skillpt quests that earn the fastest (solo ofcourse), so that people can get unlocks, so that people can actually try a variety of ideas and achieve REAL diversity.

IFF they change the rewards to 1 skillpt + a 1-2k xp reward + no gold reward, and they change the skill buying system to cap at about 100g, then the CASUAL players can have a decent chance both obtaining skills, and getting good gear at non-inflated prices.

and yes im damn well trying to provoke some answers from anet, and yes i will exercise my right to get answers via speculation. because dammit if im gonna pay AU$80 for the game, i wanna know im not paying for something that will give me more frustration than fun.

skill > time spent is the mantra of this game right???
grind > skill > time spent > casual player is the reality right now

hell i play fair amount, ive got ~400k in the bank for skills, honestly im not gonna be too screwed here. but if anet keep screwing around and trying to emulate wow grind (just think of skillpts as levels and you can compare the two), and drift further away from the original idealogy of starting new and being able to have fun in both pve/pvp, then really theyre just killing off new and existing players that i could be enjoying the game with.

aron searle · Apr 13, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Maybe Anet will lower the price of skills?

Look, I think people are arguing over how this will be implemented. I think the basic idea of people choosing what skills they want is a good one, as long as it's affordable.

Maybe?

Thats not good enough to convince someone to buy it though is it, maybe......

People are worried about extra grind, its not weather they are right or wrong, but that we dont even know if they are right or wrong. For some people its a deciding factor if they will buy the game, and the best people can come up with is "maybe" its going to be ok so give it a go, ermmm no Anet are supposed to be convincing these people to buy the game and all they "seem" to do (as in the impression and it could be wrong), is say give it a go and trust us, not good enough.

Gails post answeres some questions but raises more as well.

They will "help" with gold rewards, why be so unspecific. Why not just tell us if youll give us enough for a skill, several skills, or if you take the words litrally just help and provide say 75%/50%25% of the cost of a skill. Remember they said they will help offset the cost this is not a promise to pay for it fully, if it is then it needs to be confirmed or denied.

Also for people buying Guild wars 1&2, they are facing a huge HUGE grind if they want to fully unlock, dont tell me they dont need to, its a game you dont even need to play it, so need is a stupid word to use in a game. Why are these people not being given a straight answere as to what measures will be taken to alliviate the HUGE amount of time to unlock all skills?

FACT = People will not buy guild wars if these concerns are not addressed first

FACT = the only thing you can argue about that fact is weather it will be 1 person or 1 million people.

SilentAssassin · Apr 13, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper008

Hm how about this

omg... read gaile's post,

EVERYBODY READ Gaile's post...

Much better? No

I don't mind ppl correcting me, but I do mind when they just want to irritate the other person.

You think you'r smart? It's easy over the internet isn't it?

/words in my head *ignore it, just ignore it...*

Hella Good · Apr 13, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vusak

PvP'rs require UAX asap usually. that way they can quickly adapt to new builds and stay competitive, this is by and large the definition of fun/enjoyment for PvP'rs in this game. while you can argue that a good build just requires 8 skills not the whole lot, a PvP'r usually feels very handicapped with restricted choice, and a PvP'rs perspective of their own enjoyment counts for more than anyone elses.

QFT. UAX is a necessity in PvP. UAS is more of a prestige thing, I agree. Still doesn't mean you should spend gazillions of hours playing just to get your skills unlocked.

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vusak

PvP'rs require UAX asap usually. that way they can quickly adapt to new builds and stay competitive, this is by and large the definition of fun/enjoyment for PvP'rs in this game. while you can argue that a good build just requires 8 skills not the whole lot, a PvP'r usually feels very handicapped with restricted choice, and a PvP'rs perspective of their own enjoyment counts for more than anyone elses.

What a load of crap. I'm sorry, your perspective (or anyone elses, for that matter) does NOT count more.

And who do think is the majority who buys and plays this game, anyway? Casual gamers, those that don't want to fork out a monthly fee, and therefore do not feel compelled to play every second of the day. Casual gamers don't require UAX.

You can't even currently earn all the skills through quests, so how giving people more gold and more skill points from quests instead of free skills will somehow hurt GW, I don't get. It shouldn't make a difference. If anything, those that want a "specific" build, can make it much quicker.

ie, LESS grind. ie, WIN WIN.

Loviatar · Apr 13, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vusak

PvP'rs require UAX asap usually. that way they can quickly adapt to new builds and stay competitive, this is by and large the definition of fun/enjoyment for PvP'rs in this game..

the super hardcore UAS button people left long ago when they saw Anet was not going to give in on UAS.

if a few more leave they will be replaced with people who are happy with the game as presented.

find a game that suits you better and in all honesty good luck

aron searle · Apr 13, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the super hardcore UAS button people left long ago when they saw Anet was not going to give in on UAS.

if a few more leave they will be replaced with people who are happy with the game as presented.

find a game that suits you better and in all honesty good luck

The unlock rate is an issue, just look at the threads created WEEKLY to prove this. Your response to ignor the issue seems to be anets attitude as well, basicly like it or sod off.

Give me 1 good reason to not increase the unlock rate for PVP players.

1

Good

Reason